Ok, i dont know how current this page is, or if the game referred to here even exists. However, i would be interested in starting a nomic game from scratch on FunWiki. Anyone else interested? We should probably make use of the ability to nest pages to do this... but sign up immediately below and if we have enough people we can start putting together an initial rules set and work out procedures

New WikiNomic (as of 5/2004) Players


This page is not current; is, in fact, about two or three years old. The game was, in fact, played; Micah won. '''Curses! But...anyone want to play this summer (2004)?

A self-modifying game. For more information about Nomic, see NomicWiki:NomicWiki and http://nomic.net/. Also refer to the current ruleset at the bottom of this page.

The game is taking place at a separate wiki, now online at http://www3.hmc.edu/~mbrubeck/nomic/, or Nomic:FunNomic?.

Update: The FunNomic? site no longer exists. MattBrubeck may have an archive of the last game state somewhere, if anyone's interested. In Fall 2002, AdamBliss started up a new game of PerlNomic.

Current Players

If you wish to join the game, please put your name on the active players list at the separate wiki link above.

Pregame Discussion

I propose that we keep track of whose turn it is by adding an arrow after the name of the player in the list (example above). We can randomize the order of the list before we start playing. Also, we will have to modify the rules below to fit in with whatever concept we use to actually play. --RobAdams

Oh dear lord, not the Suber set. My experience has been that things like Suber's judging mechanism and taking "turns" don't work well in non-FTF formats (we had somebody declare themselves judge and attempt to take over the game in the span of half an hour in the first email game I participated in. It wasn't really an "I win" sort of take over the game, but rather an attempt to fix the rules... Lemme look at the WikiNomic starting set and see if those are any better... does anybody have a strong preference *for* the Suber ruleset or some low-order derivative? --AndrewSchoonmaker

I don't have a strong preference for the Suber set (in fact, if we do end up using it, I fully intend to try to eliminate the turn-based system as quickly as possible). I would like to start with something that is either a minor modification of an existing ruleset, minimalist, or both (to keep as much of the meta-game within the game itself as possible). The WikiNomic starting set, when I looked at it a couple days ago, struck me as rather more free-form then I would like; it allows anyone to make a change in the rules, so long as the change does not impair the ability of others to do so.--MicahSmukler

Oh. I'm not thrilled about changes without voting. I think we need a few more rules than you give below [it's a bit more minimalist than I expected]. The real problem, IMHO, with starting from the Suber set and trying to take out all the things that you don't like as part of the game, is that it tends to make the first while of the game fairly boring.... If nomic.net doesn't come back up shortly, I'll look over my email logs and see if the set we started a game with might be suitably modified for the Wiki format. (If nobody minds) --AndrewSchoonmaker

How about:

"1. Any player may propose a change to the rules by creating a wiki page containing their proposed rule change named ProposalX?, where X is replaced by the least positive integer that has not already been used. If at any time a simple majority of all players are indicating their approval for the proposal on its wiki page, any player may alter the rules in the manner described by the proposal. The text of the proposed rule change itself may not be altered once the wiki page has been created. No player may alter the rules in any other way.

2. If any player is declared in the rules to be the Exquisite Eggplant, that player wins the game."--MicahSmukler

I sort of agree with a lot of the assessments that Andrew made of the ruleset below. Perhaps we should start with something simpler and move on from there?

I like the two rules above, personally. I think that going from there would be fine. Personally, I'm interested in attempting to start a game of Wikit. (see WikiNomic:RulesOfWikit) -- EvilSouthie

Mmm. Well, it might not be too bad (once we do, in fact, figure out what we want some of the pagenames to be formatted like). I'll look through my old email anyway, but this will probably suffice. I guess if we somehow all decide that it's sufficiently horrible, we can just vote a new ruleset in wholesale. -- AndrewSchoonmaker

I think that using the two rules proposed by Micah will clear up a lot of the problems that I think I can see cropping up by using the rules listed below: namely that our rule number one is separated into seventeen rules through a lot of obfuscation and unnecessary definition, and most importantly, it would require every single person to visit the Wiki for every rule proposed, which would make the game inordinately slow. Having the ability to make several rules pending at once gives people the opportunity to just check RecentChanges for things they haven't voted on, and then lets them vote on all of them at once. This means that if one person doesn't log on for a while, the damage is minimized to requiring extra votes to pass new laws. -- EvilSouthie

I'd like to suggest that proposals take the form:

ProposalXXX?: blah blah blah

Voters for Approval:

Voters for Denial:

And I'd separately like to motion that Nomic:FunNomic? get started up. I'm willing to move over Micah's rules, set up some pending rule changes, and organize the few starting pages we'll need (a list of active players and a place to discuss stuff comes to mind). If there's no objections and a few people say to go for it (or if nobody does anything in a few days), I'll go ahead and move stuff over. -- EvilSouthie

Getting started sounds like a good idea to me. I will only note that the rules as I've written them do not allow you to vote against things, except by failing to vote for them.--MicahSmukler

Separate Wiki

The new wiki is now online and running. The admin password is "momar." Anyone can delete or rename pages by setting this in their preferences and then going to Nomic:action=editlinks.

Free links and subpages are active. These features may prove useful for the game structure; in particular we may want names like Nomic:ProposedRules?/12 and Nomic:RuleSet?/101. Note that the pattern for subpage names is looser than the top-level WikiName pattern. See UseMod:SubPage for details.

A problem with numerals was fixed by MattBrubeck who had to patch the software.

Other Wiki-based games

Relevant intermap prefixes (see [1] for the whole list):

FunWiki | RecentChanges | Preferences
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Last edited May 18, 2004 12:18 (diff)